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"My happiness and sorrow are all reflected in terms of
Music" – T.N. Seshagopalan
A child prodigy, a Mother's disciple and an untaught student
of many a guru. That is Madurai T.N.Seshagopalan
for you. A stickler to tradition, life revolves around music
for him. The senior vocalist opens up his mind in an exclusive
interview with Sudha Jagannathan.
Here are the excerpts.
You have a come a long. What does music mean to you? What have
you got from it? What have you given it back? What is it that
you want to achieve? You might have achieved in terms of winning
awards. I am not asking you from the award angle. |
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TNS: In my view,
a child begins to understand and demand a thing at the age of
2 to two-and half years. A child starts demanding this or that
from that age. That is the age it starts understanding something
other than basic feelings. I had the perplexity of music from
that age itself.
I used to sing well from the age of three. My mother Tiruvenkadavalli
began to teach me Raghuveera Gadyam, Tiruppavai, Tiruvenpavai
and Tirupalliyezuchi from that age itself. My mother used to
say that I sang Nalangu in marriages in the manner of a child's
prattle. From that early age, the `music feeling' took a predominant
role in me along with the playfulness and other feelings of
a normal child. To me, any event or any activity in my life
is only in the background of music. They are only in terms of
music. That is how it has become for me. It has become an inseparable
feeling in my body. It has become a dominant feeling. What it
means to me? It means everything to me. Instead of saying I
breath music, I will say music is more than breath for me. I
see music always. Music is my friend. Music is my entertainment.
Music is recreation. Music is my living. Music is my pravirthi.
Music is my humour. My happiness and sorrow are all reflected
only in terms of music. I don't know anything other than music.
I know nothing without music.
Even after such a long journey in music, do I know much? I will
say no. It is impossible to know all about music. Like the Tamil
saying "Kalvi karai alla" "karpavai naal sila",
a single birth is not enough to learn. It needs several births.
When you know a little about something, then only you realize
that you don't know many aspects of it (music). When you understand
a thing, you have a feeling that you don't know several other
aspects. Then you begin to have the feeling of longing for more
information. We begin to wonder how much more knowledge you
would acquire in this birth. How justifiable are you going to
be? All these thoughts instill a sense of fear as you age. Should
the thought that we have achieved something cross our mind any
time, mere thinking of things to be achieved will make us realize
how we have wasted life. To avoid this regret, we don't even
entertain any thinking that we have achieved.
What have you given it back to music?
TNS: Music is an expression of human feelings.
It can be conveyed in many forms, catering to the tastes of
others' instincts. For those who have chosen classical music
as their idiom or abstract language, their prime duty is to
define and display divinity felt by them. This should be conveyed
to the audience or listeners. Music is not only to ears. It
is also to the hearts. It is to the brain as well. It is to
the soul. That is why it is called the easiest path or boat
to attain salvation. Music should show the God. The God whom
I have seen should also fill the hearts and minds of others.
What many a religious head could not do, we should do through
this Nada Upasana. That is our duty.
This is true if somebody takes Carnatic music as a profession.
If we start worshiping the stage as a professional, the fruits
of the worship should not only reach us but all those who see
and listen. On the stage once the sruthi is on, I go on a different
trance. I don't worry about the payment I receive and the audience
before me. I go beyond this materialism. It is an entirely different
equilibrium. At some places, I got fully and emotionally involved.
Others would not have noticed. Later, I returned to reality.
If listeners also reach the same status, stage and the divine
constant as I have at any given concert - then I think I have
touched the first footstep of achievement. If I am able to take
along with me the entire audience to see God as I do all through
my rendition, then only I will say that I have worshiped the
God in the right way and my prayers have fallen into HIS ears.
Have you ever felt that way in any of your kutcheri?
TNS: There have been good experiences. Many
stories can be told on that. The audience participation I am
talking about is a higher level one. At that point, the audience
doesn't applaud, does not go into instant `sabhash saying,'
doesn't speak and doesn't even know if the kutcheri has ended.
You reach a standstill stage. You should realise only after
you come out of the concert hall.
Do you have a music background?
TNS: My mother used to sing through listening
knowledge. She was involved in Nama Sankeerthanam. She was an
expert. There was none in our immediate past generation who
had taken classical music as a profession and learnt it the
way it was meant to be.
Do you think a Guru is required for a child prodigy like you?
TNS: There is nothing without a guru. It holds
true for any art. It does not mean that one should go through
the gurukulavasam and involve in guru service. He may not have
taught you. Yet, he can be your `maanaseeka guru'. We learn
what to do from some. We also learn what not to do from some
others. Even that needs to be taught. Only when you know one
good thing, you realise that 10 others are wrong. For arts like
Veda, Ghana et al, guru alone can take us to the right way.
We may have acquired the talent to travel. But it is the guru
who guides us to the right way. What we think, what we talk
and what we do (they say this as manasa, vaacha and karmana)
- if all these three have to come in the right way, you need
the help of a guru. You will wander all over and reach the right
place at the evening of your life. By then, you would have wasted
all your time, in the process. A guru will correct your journey
in the beginning itself.
Who is your `maanaseeka' guru?
TNS: Other than my mother, all those learned
people whose kutcheries I had attended were my `maanaseeka gurus'.
I had a lot of good associations in Madurai. Nama Sangeetham
- Thirupugazh and Thevaram. Then Sanskrit. Then the college.
I used to go to a number of Kutcheries. When I was in Madurai,
it was sort of a golden time with all the branches of music
blossoming well. My parents had given me training to exploit
the Madurai surroundings. Further, the school I studied, the
association I had developed and fellow people - all of them
have blessed me. It was a gift of God to me. From whomsoever
I had learnt the good - they were my gurus until the age of
16 when I joined Ramanathapuram Sankara Sivam.
From gurukulavasam to teacher visiting students and now the
Internet mode of learning - What is your view?
TNS: Communication for information is a happy
thing to have happened. Time was when there was no communication.
To take out any information from a place, one has to suffer
a lot. People never easily parted information. That was when
students thought it to be disrespectful to ask a guru about
any doubt. They just watched the guru, read him and got clarified.
They used to assimilate materials as they came by their way
and tried to adopt them to their needs. Thanks to technology,
however, information is available these days.
At the same time, if you start asking `why' for everything,
he will miss out on things you ought to know. You must know
a lot of things, understand them, assimilate them and then only
try to differentiate. If you ask `why' at that stage, then it
is reasonable. A doubt should come at a later point and not
at the beginning. You must first obey, understand, assimilate
and then scrutinize yourself as to what you have learnt. You
ask questions only after doing all these. Then alone you will
get a clear idea. If you start asking questions without learning,
it will only upset the equilibrium of a teacher.
A child may not have the intelligence to know how to employ
the freedom and right. Only after a level of learning, the child
begins to understand this. Traditions and conventions are by
definition do not mean `superficial acts'. To say that one should
follow all that had been done by our ancestors is a wrong explanation.
Tradition is the result of a constant research made over decades
or centuries. The final thing, which is termed to be permanent
- stood, it stands and will stand. It had withstood the test
of time. So we can't just simply ignore tradition.
Parents these days want their children reach the stage fast.
What is your view?
TNS: Everything is fast in modern days. The
rate of intelligence is moving up fast in line with the time.
There is nothing wrong. But you must deserve and then decide.
If you deserve and achieve that - then there is nothing wrong
in giving that privilege to a child. If you start doing this
to all children just because you have done it to a child, then
comes the danger. People say we need half-hour duration kutcheries.
There is nothing wrong to think of giving one-hour concerts
to kids. If you let all kids participate in a concert since
it is just for an hour, then it is wrong. For a one-hour concert,
you can have a package just like preparing for an exam and vomiting.
Here the art form is missing. This is a big malady and is spreading
like a virus. This is a danger for the Carnatic music.
Don't you think that this helps clear the stage fear in a child
TNS: People who come to see get the fear. They
may fear that the Carnatic music will disappear. In former times,
only those who were too keen to take music as a profession went
to gurukulavasam and, hence, were ready to do service to the
teacher. Gurus also knew that their wards had talent. They would
correct their wards as they learn. They went to gurukulavasam
those days to do multi-PHDs and not for basic learning. My Guru
went to Muthiah Bagavathar to do gurukulavasam at the age of
16. By then, he had learnt a lot of kritis and become an expert
on `layam'. The gurukulavasam teaches quite a number of other
things in life.
Besides study time, a student should spend some hours every
morning for a few years with the guru. He should get his doubts
cleared with his guru. He should devote time for practice. If
one can use and exploit all the information and facilities of
modern techniques and media - then there is nothing like a better
gurukulavasm in the current day. I will say it is possible.
But all these should happen under strict observation.
Music is all about creativity. In the name of creativity, upcoming
artistes do quite a lot of things and throw up innovations like
fusion music. What is your view?
TNS: Without crossing the traditional border,
one can express his/her mind and style through creative singing.
This is known as style creativity. Big creative artistes will
keep cropping up in huge numbers for many years to come. We
welcome such creative artistes and we need more of them. But
discovery of new ragas and the like stuffs - if you are telling
something new, you should know the old completely. If we can
learn the kritis composed by great saints and render them properly
that will alone be suffice.
To attempt composing something similar or even better than them
... Many greats - incarnations of God - have already done that.
If you still want to do something, you need to know those existing
already. I concur with Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer in this regard.
Our predecessors have dug up many wells that can give nectar.
We have not been to drink them fully yet in this birth. Where
is the need for digging a fresh well to discover the nectar?
One can claim to have discovered a new raga. One should have
known the old in its entirety. The new one should have either
the influence of the old or independent stature of its own to
gain stability. One should do a composition and the `raga swarupam'
should be familiar and sung by many even after several decades.
Only then can it claim to have stood the test of time. One can
legitimately claim to have discovered something only after that.
If Marugesa Muthiah Bagavathar created a raga, people sang it
even in those days. Within 20 years, people began singing those
ragas and they become popular. Even Tyagaraja Swami did not
have that luck. Tyagaraja kritis had come to light a long after
his demise. For others, the luck came a little early.
What do you think of fusion music?
TNS: Fusion is a venture to show something
differently to the audience. Within Indian music, they are number
places where the fuse goes off between two systems.
Ours is a raga sangeetam. If swaras come in an octave where
raga is affected, the raga will lose its life. Some ragas in
Carnatic music should come with `gamakkam'. Only then will we
be able to identify with certainty the raga. If you sing in
`suddha swaram' without the gamakkam, the right raga will not
be heard. It will just be a skeleton. It will have no life.
If anyone tries to do harmony with swaras without `gamakkam,'
it will not jell with carnatic music.
But people wish to see something new always - whether good or
bad. How many fusion programmes are happening these days? Fusion
music providers basically exploit the inquisitiveness of the
people. If it is successful, it should keep happening. Why is
it not coming back? This goes to prove that it is not correct.
Long duration kutcheries were quite in vogue in those days.
Do you think the trend will return?
TNS: Only in Chennai people advertise the four-hour
kutcheries. Most mofussil kutcheries I sing are for four hours.
In 2000, for Vaikunda Ekadesi, I had sung 12 hours non-stop.
Madurai means Mani Iyer. Now it is you. Can you share some experience
about him?
TNS: Mani Iyer is a Nada Yogi. Despite his physical disability,
he had some distinct qualities. He had the uncanny ability to
convert any sound into music. He had that `yoga stage.' He had
that `siddhi.' Nobody asked if he had sung this or that. But
they all listened and accepted what he sang as music. Even as
he sang that simple, he used to sing simple nava varnams. He
would do it in his own simple but great style.
Do you think music has become less divine these days?
TNS: Music for the sake of music. The divinity
and depth will come only if this comes to the mind. If it is
done for professional sake or to win a few applauds, then the
true swarupa and greatness of music will diminish.
What to do to prevent?
TNS: I don't compromise for others. If I feel
correct, I will do that.
Is packaged way of giving music right to bring more people into
the fold?
TNS: It does not mean that you compromise on
quality. You can tell in a simple manner. But you have to say
it in a great way. If you have chosen to tell it in a great
way, then you will have to prepare them to understand. Then
only will they be ready to take it.
Do you think the current crop of musicians have patience to
teach?
TNS: The profession tends to become sound even
at a very initial stage. Who are going to really matter in the
field and who are going to stand in the end - only the time
and their effort alone will decide. One has also to see how
these youngsters are going to manage the pressures by organising
themselves.
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